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Basement Ceiling Leak - Part 5 - More Shower Caulking

Sun, 18 Aug 2008 01:10:39 GMT

posted by Educator1

A few months ago in Part 4 when we last visited our basement leak Bennett, our kitchen installer, had come over and found more grout that appeared to not be properly finished in the shower of the en suite.

The three air pipes in the basement from which water was dripping down onto the drip ceiling tiles in the basement were located directly underneath the en suite shower.

Upon a closer examination of the shower stall by Bennett, he noticed that the area where the bottom of the marble ledge met the vertical tile had noticeable gap in the grout.

So, my task was to apply caulking to this area. I also noticed other areas on the same side with the same missing grout.

However, since the shower had been used now for about 5 months, Bennett suggested two things before I applied the silicone caulking. One was to really clean the tile. And the second was to use a little sand paper to rough up the grout so the caulking would actually have something rough to adhere.

So, these are the tools I used for this.

I then did what Bennett suggested. I used CLR mixed with an equal amount of water to really get any soap and calcium buildup off of the tile directly underneath the marble ledge. I then used the sand paper to rough up the remaining grout in that area. Lastly I applied a liberal amount of the silicone caulking.

The next day I took my shower and then about an hour later went downstairs to see if there was any wet spot on the ceiling tile. Nope. All dry. Things were looking up.

Later that morning Cath took her shower. I went downstairs a couple of hours later and checked the spot on the ceiling tile. Wet. Very wet.

The leak was not solved.

Basement Ceiling Leak - Part 3 - Not The Drain Pipe

Mon, 8 Apr 2008 04:10:19 GMT

posted by Educator1

In Part 2 of our basement ceiling leak series, I described our initial attempts to fix the leak apparently coming from the en suite shower.

The day after I resealed the shower drain as described in yesterday’s article, we proceeded to take two showers. Once done, I then checked the ceiling tile in the basement. A new water stain had emerged in the same place as the previous water stain. When I removed the ceiling tile, I confirmed that it was the same pipe from which the water was dripping.

Now, it is a slow leak. It is not like water is gushing out onto the basement floor causing significant water damage. Yet, it is a leak, staining the ceiling tile in the basement’s drop ceiling and it should not be happening. It did not happen for the first 4 months or so once we started to use our new en suite.

In hind sight I should have known that it was not the drain pipe in the floor of the basement. Why? Well, here again is the picture of the pipe in the ceiling of the basement. If you look closely you will see that it does not have that dip (some call it an elbow) in the pipe which all such drain pipe have to hold a small amount of water which prevents any bad odours coming out of the pipe and into the room.

So, a few days later while taking a shower I noticed some water build up on the tile floor against the built in tiled bench. Now, the water all dissipated into the drain once the shower was complete, however during the shower there was a steady collection of water. I returned later that morning to examine the sower floor in that area and noticed an approximately 4 inch gap that had no silicone caulking at all. And, where was that gap? Well, it was directly across from the floor drain.

I also noticed that the edge of the built-in tiled bench there were small cracks in the caulking and that this part of the bench seat did not have any silicone caulking applied.

So, in a few more days, once the stain on the ceiling tile in the basement continued to grow in size and once I had some time during the day (remember I have my own day job ), I proceeded to apply fresh silicone caulking to the area on the shower floor across from the drain which had no silicone caulking yet was where there was significant water build-up during a shower.

I also applied silicone caulking on the edge of the built-in tiled bench where there were cracks starting to show in the grout.

Did this work? No. I thought for sure that it would work. Nope. In tomorrow’s article, we get help.

Basement Ceiling Leak - Part 1 - The Discovery

Thu, 28 Mar 2008 04:20:41 GMT

posted by Educator1

The other day my wife and I were in our basement and I happened to notice that a few of the ceiling tiles in our drop ceiling were exhibiting different types of water stains. One ceiling tile had a large brown circular water stain on one side, while another had a brown water stain along one side.

I was surprised as I thought I had replaced all of the ceiling tiles which were either already stained before we moved into the house. So, I preceded to replace those ceiling tiles and moved on to the rest of the day.

A few mornings later when I went down stairs for our usual first thing in the morning routine of letting our dog out the back for her morning ‘constitutional’ when yes, you guessed it, there was a circular water stain back on the tile I had just replaced. And I just installed the new ceiling tile. Now, ceiling tiles are not that expensive. I had purchased a few months back a box of 8 2 feet wide by 4 feet long ceiling tiles for around $48 at the local big box building supply retailer. I just hate to waste money.

So, I remove the newly stained ceiling tile and saw that there were three pipes within the 2 foot by 2 foot area covered by the ceiling tile.

I was able to determine that the black pipe which was second from the left in the above picture was the culprit. There were trailers left from where the water was dripping and even a drip waiting to fall.

That particular area of the basement was directly above our master bedroom en suite, likely above the shower but we could not be sure. So Cath and I then did some tests to see what might be the culprit. With me in the basement she ran first one and then the other faucet for the sinks. Nope, no drip.

She then flushed the toilet (although the toilet was several feet away, but we thought ‘what the heck’). Nope, no drip. She then ran the shower. Still nothing.

We then contacted Bruce, the contractor who installed the bathroom. Bruce told us that the pipe with the drip was actually an air pipe. As we learned, in order for water to flow as it should in a house there needs to be place for the displaced air to go. Think of it this way. Have you ever drank your favourite beverage straight from the bottle? If you place (not overly sanitary, I know) the entire top of the bottle in your mouth when drinking from it, you know that you need to remove the bottle from your mouth to let some air into it to allow you to continue drinking.

However, if you drink from the bottle by placing only part of the bottle to your lips leaving a space immediately above your lips so air can get into the bottle as you drink it, you can keep drinking until the bottle is empty. This is the same effect of air pipes in the house; when water flows into a pipe the displaced air has to go somewhere for the water flow not to be reduced.

Tomorrow, we’ll continue with more of our discussion with Bruce and what we attempted to do to stop the water drip.

Basement Ceiling Leak - Part 2 - Initial Correction Attemps

Fri, 29 Mar 2008 04:44:38 GMT

posted by Educator1

Yesterday we discovered the water stain in one of our basement’s drop ceiling tiles. We had just contacted Bruce, our contractor for his guidance.

After being informed that the pipe in question was an air pipe, I then asked if it was possible that the leak originated from the roof where the pipe extended out beyond the roof’s shingles. Bruce said not likely. The reason, which makes sense to me, is that before be purchased the house the room which now contained our en suite was a small bedroom. And, through the installation of the bathroom Bruce simply tapped into the existing air pipes. So, this air pipe did not in itself extend up through the roof, but connected with an existing air pipe that did extend out through the roof.

Bruce said that likely the cause was insufficient caulking in the shower. Again, this made sense to me as the shower seemed to be directly above the pipe.

Now, this conversation with Bruce spanned a few days. So, after the first conversation I had thought that perhaps the drain in the floor of the shower was not sufficiently sealed. So, I attempted to reseal the drain.

I removed the silicone caulking around the metal cover followed by the metal cover itself. I had just come back from our local building supply retailer to purchase some silicone caulking and they also said I should use plumbers putty on the inside. So, that is what I did.

First I applied some of the silicone caulking around one of what appeared to be a connection ridge on the inside of the drain just in case the leak was there. Then, I liberally applied (I am sure way too much but I had never done this before) the plumbers putty on the inside of the drain opening.

This was followed by my applying silicone caulking around the edge of the tile flooring around the drain opening.

I next replaced the metal cover into the opening and applied even more silicone caulking around it. (I know, I know……likely too much). However, I hate rework. And, I have formal training as an accountant who typically are a conservative bunch so the more preventative measures the better).

I then preceded back down to the basement and turned the ceiling tile with the water stain 90 degrees. I wanted to have a clean area of the ceiling tile directly underneath the leaking pipe as the test. The next morning we took our showers and proceeded down to the basement to check on the ceiling tile. All I can say at this point is…. rats.

Plumbing - Heating systems explained

Fri, 17 Feb 2007 00:40:28 GMT

posted by kotoman
Now that our system is dead I’ve been forced to look into the world of heating 3 months early. When broken down, heating systems are fairly uncomplicated. There are 3 main types; free standing, wall mounted and back boilers.

Free standing:
These are slim boilers that are situated on the floor and usually installed between kitchen units.

Wall mounted:
Smaller, more compact heat exchangers. These boilers don’t require the room to be vented.

Back boilers:
These are the first central heating systems that were on offer. They do require the room to be vented. They were installed in the fireplace and thus are treated as open flued models. When these boilers break down they tend to omit poisonous flumes. This is the system we are replacing and I can confirm that when ours started to go, the room stank.

Other systems are condensing boilers and combination boilers (combi)

Condensing boilers have been around for some time and as more efficient designs are bought out, more savings on fuel costs can be found. Easy to install, care must be taken when considering the placement of the flue as ‘pluming’ (steam like omissions that, although are non toxic, would annoy if placed by a window or door) Also this system needs to be able to drain the result of the condensation away to a drain.

Combination boilers are popular as they remove the need to have a hot water tank and thus save space. They are typically installed in flats and small houses. They allow hot water on demand but are limited if the hot water is required for multiple sources (tap in the kitchen and the shower running at the same time)

Warm air systems are also available and are usually found in small houses and flats. These work by heating the air using burning gas and then pumping the hot air around the house. These systems are very economical to run and are quick to warm up from cold. It’s also possible to get electrostatic air filters to eliminate odours and 95% of airborne particles. (good for asthma sufferers)

You are also restricted to what can be installed where. These are the places where certain boilers can or can’t be installed.

Kitchen – all types, preferably on an external wall for the flue.
Living Room – Back boilers are not permitted.
Bedrooms – only fanned to room sealed boilers can be fitted. Boilers that draw air from the room must not be fitted in bedrooms.
Bathrooms - only fanned to room sealed boilers can be fitted. Boilers that draw air from the room must not be fitted in bathrooms.
Under stairs – as long as adequate fire protection is installed giving 30 minutes or more protection all can be installed.
Garage – all boilers but frost protection is required.
Roof space – all can be installed but secure access, permanent lighting and boards between hatch and boiler are required to be installed as well.
Cellar – as external walls aren’t available, only fanned flue and conventional flue boilers can be fitted.

Choosing a boiler will depend on your personal needs, size of house and location you wish to install the boiler. We spoke to Abbey boilers who were very helpful. This article is only a guide and further information and advice should be sort from a corgi registered engineer.

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